Following are some of the mails in the to and against regional(Gujju) reservation in da-iict. I liked both the arguments :). They have made many valid points and have tired really to reason out from both the side.
This is a true democracy and I love and respect each opinion down here. Hope the people in politics have so healthy conversation one day instead of barking against each other like dogs.
Well coming back to the point of reservation. In my opinion reservation in any form is meant to support a community to bring it to the level of others.
Ideally speaking from individual reservation base point.
Caste based reservation helps in at last some people from downtrodden caste to forcefully mix with upper caste people. This will help in diminishing the caste feelings.Region based reservation will help or support in bring people of particular region to come on par with other people.And if you consider in financial side there are subsidise given to people so that government can support the business that they are doing.
So speaking of support is for a time period it cannot continue for every which gives unnatural advantage to one person over other. When we introduce reservation or subsidies or any such measures it is only to mend the stream of our growth in proper direction against a natural flow. But it is important to understand that we can only change the direction or control it for time period as it caused lot of unrest among masses.
The correct way to go about is a NATURAL way where every human has equal opportunity and there is healthy competition among them for the benefit of humanity at large.
Now coming to the exact discussion here, well the first author says that reservation is for spreading awareness among masses but i think awareness must and can be spread through other means. This say with any other issue. Still this is reasonably best possible reason given to the madness of reservation for which i dont think guj govt has thought that much before passing the act. I am really impressed by your thoughts for great India and only counter your argument that it can only be done though reservation.
For second author I think he is more business minded. For a country like India the balanced growth is as much important as growth itself. For this the government tries a lot , I agree that reservation may be bad means to do the same but it is equally very important to grow in a balanced way. This goes a long way in keeping the national integration and unity and avoiding the friction among the people from more developed states with that of less developed states. One of the classic example are the recent riots in Maharashtra by MNS leader trying to throw away people from UP and Bihar who due to economic poverty have immigrated to industrialized places in Maharashtra. So even if we can invest all our money in making mumbai a hong kong like city or for that any other city we spend billions of ruppes on NE states from which government earn almost income or other taxes. You may say education is different than economy but in a sense no. They are almost same. Gujrat might be economically rich state but educationally poor state.
Hello All,
I am Maulik Soni, did my M Tech from DAIICT & I am from Gujarat.
If you read, kindly read till the end despite of long email.
I have been reading this conversation since it's initiated & after reading email from Prof. Chetan Parikh, I thought I would also like to write my opinion on this as well.
1st, I would like to explain situation of education in Gujarat. In Gujarat, education is not given highest priority as our state is mostly driven through small scale businesses. Ppl usually put their children to pursue minimal education & hand over business. Young ppl also get into business despite of whatever education they have. So many ppl even dont know abt differences in engg college(s) in Gujarat & an IIT. In my time also, 95% students were not aware of IITs & rest 5% didn't want to go to the IITs. Thus, in Gujarat there is a definite lack of awareness & students have less exposure to elite institutions & quality of education. I'll say students are definitely brilliant, but exposure is too less. Native Gujarati Students dont event think of appearing for JEE / AIEEE / PMT etc.
Now, as per my understanding and as the initial definition of quota, quota came into existence to provide equal opportunity & exposure to underprivileged or unexposed students. The root cause behind quota was to allow a generation of students an exposure that they might not have thought of if not pushed deliberately to it. If one generation is given exposure, definitely next generation (at least) will be able to think about better quality education.
Suppose you are a CEO of an organization. Everybody in your org. is not capable of doing all things. So what you do ?? You combine ppl with less & more ability to do same task, so that the less ability person will have exposure to do such a task independently next time. A trainee / new joinee is always put under mentoring to get more exposure. Same is with govt. For govt. all students are same, some are capable, some are not. So they are doing same - put these together so that all get equal exposure & opportunity - by means of Quota. This should essentially bridge the gap between the Rich(education wise) & the Poor(education wise).
The major difference between the Org. & Govt. is that in org. there is a time limit within which, the unexposed must get exposure & show results. While, in quota there is no time limit. Here I put strong objection. Quota must have limit of time, say quota for 5 to 10 years only. After that it must be removed. If this is not the case, it will become a nuisance and certainly not solve its original purpose.
So, I believe, Quota is not bad, but quota without time limit is extremely bad.
So, ideally what should be done now - as quota is implemented - to preserve quality, culture of institution, quality of students keeping in mind that original goodwill behind quota is also fulfilled.
In my view, if students of institute ignore/neglect the quota based students, it spoils institute culture & quality more than gaining anything. If we, students want to see India grow & all students of India get opportunity, then we should try to support such students in polishing skills & get them up to the mark so that next time they don't require quota to join the institute. If we see only smaller picture of quality of institution, it seems quota degrades it, but if we see bigger picture of India as a country, then it seems quota may improve overall education amongst larger mass of people. We, Gujaratis should make ppl more aware about such competitive exams & elite institutions, education quality etc. Similarly, you, who are studying should try to support others as well.
Now, who is victim of all these ??? What price to pay for all these ??
Victims are those who have got higher rank in AIEEE, who are not from Gujarat & who could also not get into DAIICT. If in one's family out of two children, one is sharp in studies & gets to IIT & other is weak in studies & doesnt get into IIT, parents definitely think of other way to settle him in life through other means. Not getting into IIT is not end of career/life.
So, all in all, in my opinion, quota is good but time limit has to be there. We should try best to increase awareness about quality education, competitive exams (JEE, AIEEE, PMT, GATE, CAT etc), support students to hone skills & not deteriorating culture & quality of DAIICT.
We should also hope & try that quota will have a reassessment by monitoring the effect of it and be subsequently REMOVED if certain parameters like, X % number of students of Gujarat have started appearing for AIEEE or have got admission into elite (say top 25) institutions etc. Our more efforts towards this will effectively enable India & unexposed students, both to grow at same time.
Regards,
-> Maulik Soni.
Other Opinion --->
Sir
I have few doubts:This is a true democracy and I love and respect each opinion down here. Hope the people in politics have so healthy conversation one day instead of barking against each other like dogs.
Well coming back to the point of reservation. In my opinion reservation in any form is meant to support a community to bring it to the level of others.
Ideally speaking from individual reservation base point.
Caste based reservation helps in at last some people from downtrodden caste to forcefully mix with upper caste people. This will help in diminishing the caste feelings.Region based reservation will help or support in bring people of particular region to come on par with other people.And if you consider in financial side there are subsidise given to people so that government can support the business that they are doing.
So speaking of support is for a time period it cannot continue for every which gives unnatural advantage to one person over other. When we introduce reservation or subsidies or any such measures it is only to mend the stream of our growth in proper direction against a natural flow. But it is important to understand that we can only change the direction or control it for time period as it caused lot of unrest among masses.
The correct way to go about is a NATURAL way where every human has equal opportunity and there is healthy competition among them for the benefit of humanity at large.
Now coming to the exact discussion here, well the first author says that reservation is for spreading awareness among masses but i think awareness must and can be spread through other means. This say with any other issue. Still this is reasonably best possible reason given to the madness of reservation for which i dont think guj govt has thought that much before passing the act. I am really impressed by your thoughts for great India and only counter your argument that it can only be done though reservation.
For second author I think he is more business minded. For a country like India the balanced growth is as much important as growth itself. For this the government tries a lot , I agree that reservation may be bad means to do the same but it is equally very important to grow in a balanced way. This goes a long way in keeping the national integration and unity and avoiding the friction among the people from more developed states with that of less developed states. One of the classic example are the recent riots in Maharashtra by MNS leader trying to throw away people from UP and Bihar who due to economic poverty have immigrated to industrialized places in Maharashtra. So even if we can invest all our money in making mumbai a hong kong like city or for that any other city we spend billions of ruppes on NE states from which government earn almost income or other taxes. You may say education is different than economy but in a sense no. They are almost same. Gujrat might be economically rich state but educationally poor state.
Hello All,
I am Maulik Soni, did my M Tech from DAIICT & I am from Gujarat.
If you read, kindly read till the end despite of long email.
I have been reading this conversation since it's initiated & after reading email from Prof. Chetan Parikh, I thought I would also like to write my opinion on this as well.
1st, I would like to explain situation of education in Gujarat. In Gujarat, education is not given highest priority as our state is mostly driven through small scale businesses. Ppl usually put their children to pursue minimal education & hand over business. Young ppl also get into business despite of whatever education they have. So many ppl even dont know abt differences in engg college(s) in Gujarat & an IIT. In my time also, 95% students were not aware of IITs & rest 5% didn't want to go to the IITs. Thus, in Gujarat there is a definite lack of awareness & students have less exposure to elite institutions & quality of education. I'll say students are definitely brilliant, but exposure is too less. Native Gujarati Students dont event think of appearing for JEE / AIEEE / PMT etc.
Now, as per my understanding and as the initial definition of quota, quota came into existence to provide equal opportunity & exposure to underprivileged or unexposed students. The root cause behind quota was to allow a generation of students an exposure that they might not have thought of if not pushed deliberately to it. If one generation is given exposure, definitely next generation (at least) will be able to think about better quality education.
Suppose you are a CEO of an organization. Everybody in your org. is not capable of doing all things. So what you do ?? You combine ppl with less & more ability to do same task, so that the less ability person will have exposure to do such a task independently next time. A trainee / new joinee is always put under mentoring to get more exposure. Same is with govt. For govt. all students are same, some are capable, some are not. So they are doing same - put these together so that all get equal exposure & opportunity - by means of Quota. This should essentially bridge the gap between the Rich(education wise) & the Poor(education wise).
The major difference between the Org. & Govt. is that in org. there is a time limit within which, the unexposed must get exposure & show results. While, in quota there is no time limit. Here I put strong objection. Quota must have limit of time, say quota for 5 to 10 years only. After that it must be removed. If this is not the case, it will become a nuisance and certainly not solve its original purpose.
So, I believe, Quota is not bad, but quota without time limit is extremely bad.
So, ideally what should be done now - as quota is implemented - to preserve quality, culture of institution, quality of students keeping in mind that original goodwill behind quota is also fulfilled.
In my view, if students of institute ignore/neglect the quota based students, it spoils institute culture & quality more than gaining anything. If we, students want to see India grow & all students of India get opportunity, then we should try to support such students in polishing skills & get them up to the mark so that next time they don't require quota to join the institute. If we see only smaller picture of quality of institution, it seems quota degrades it, but if we see bigger picture of India as a country, then it seems quota may improve overall education amongst larger mass of people. We, Gujaratis should make ppl more aware about such competitive exams & elite institutions, education quality etc. Similarly, you, who are studying should try to support others as well.
Now, who is victim of all these ??? What price to pay for all these ??
Victims are those who have got higher rank in AIEEE, who are not from Gujarat & who could also not get into DAIICT. If in one's family out of two children, one is sharp in studies & gets to IIT & other is weak in studies & doesnt get into IIT, parents definitely think of other way to settle him in life through other means. Not getting into IIT is not end of career/life.
So, all in all, in my opinion, quota is good but time limit has to be there. We should try best to increase awareness about quality education, competitive exams (JEE, AIEEE, PMT, GATE, CAT etc), support students to hone skills & not deteriorating culture & quality of DAIICT.
We should also hope & try that quota will have a reassessment by monitoring the effect of it and be subsequently REMOVED if certain parameters like, X % number of students of Gujarat have started appearing for AIEEE or have got admission into elite (say top 25) institutions etc. Our more efforts towards this will effectively enable India & unexposed students, both to grow at same time.
Regards,
-> Maulik Soni.
- Show quoted text -
Other Opinion --->
Sir
You wrote:
Suppose you are a CEO of an organization. Everybody in your org. is not capable of doing all things. So what you do ?? You combine ppl with less & more ability to do same task, so that the less ability person will have exposure to do such a task independently next time. A trainee / new joinee is always put under mentoring to get more exposure. Same is with govt. For govt. all students are same, some are capable, some are not. So they are doing same - put these together so that all get equal exposure & opportunity - by means of Quota. This should essentially bridge the gap between the Rich(education wise) & the Poor(education wise).
And then collectively he(CEO) can increase the output of the organization.
Also giving an exposure in new fields may increase their education level academically but also consider the decline in business activities where they already are outstanding.
You wrote:
Now, who is victim of all these ??? What price to pay for all these ??
Victims are those who have got higher rank in AIEEE, who are not from Gujarat & who could also not get into DAIICT. If in one's family out of two children, one is sharp in studies & gets to IIT & other is weak in studies & doesnt get into IIT, parents definitely think of other way to settle him in life through other means. Not getting into IIT is not end of career/life.
But if somebody is already in other stream and generating good outputs, still should he/she try for other options?? if Yes, what if he/she turned out to be a failure??
See the students from rajasthan, bihar etc, they study not because they want to go to IIT or somewhere else but because they don't have other options to follow.
You Wrote:
1st, I would like to explain situation of education in Gujarat. In Gujarat, education is not given highest priority as our state is mostly driven through small scale businesses. Ppl usually put their children to pursue minimal education & hand over business. Young ppl also get into business despite of whatever education they have. So many ppl even dont know abt differences in engg college(s) in Gujarat & an IIT. In my time also, 95% students were not aware of IITs & rest 5% didn't want to go to the IITs. Thus, in Gujarat there is a definite lack of awareness & students have less exposure to elite institutions & quality of education. I'll say students are definitely brilliant, but exposure is too less. Native Gujarati Students dont event think of appearing for JEE / AIEEE / PMT etc.
I guess option 2nd is more practical.
I agree: students from gujarat are definitely brilliant, but in business.
You wrote:
Now, as per my understanding and as the initial definition of quota, quota came into existence to provide equal opportunity & exposure to underprivileged or unexposed students. The root cause behind quota was to allow a generation of students an exposure that they might not have thought of if not pushed deliberately to it. If one generation is given exposure, definitely next generation (at least) will be able to think about better quality education.
You wrote:
The major difference between the Org. & Govt. is that in org. there is a time limit within which, the unexposed must get exposure & show results. While, in quota there is no time limit. Here I put strong objection. Quota must have limit of time, say quota for 5 to 10 years only. After that it must be removed. If this is not the case, it will become a nuisance and certainly not solve its original purpose.
Now somebody may say that by that time awareness will be spread all around and the kid can fight for quality education but what about the increment in awareness of students of other states as the awareness will increase in same ratio. And I guess at that time the competition would be too high to survive.
You wrote:
We should also hope & try that quota will have a reassessment by monitoring the effect of it and be subsequently REMOVED if certain parameters like, X % number of students of Gujarat have started appearing for AIEEE or have got admission into elite (say top 25) institutions etc. Our more efforts towards this will effectively enable India & unexposed students, both to grow at same time.
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So the final solution should be: We should not go for quota at least in Education because it is an important issue that can turn upside down.
Yeah for some time we can go for quota in jobs excluding the creamy layer.
Also why can't we go for 50% women quota in education, as i can say they are far left behind all over India than gujarati students.
cheers
Anurag
www.ceres.co.in
9913115353
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